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<title>Pain in the Tech comments on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library]</title>
<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library</link>
<description>Documenting technology pains and gains.</description> 
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Kris</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4906</link>

								<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:49:56 -0800</pubDate>
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										<p>I set this up a couple of days ago with three computers -- my work PowerMac computer (we have full OC3 connections to the Internet), my home iMac on a DSL line (3Mbps/256k) and my MacBook Air with Wifi used at locations like the public library and coffee shops.</p>

<p>It works, but not well enough to continue to using it. iTunes just doesn't handle remote access for the library well. When you have JungleDrive going, where you can actually see all the files that are constantly getting updated and rewritten, it becomes clear that anything other than local drive (or at least LAN) access is an issue.</p>

<p>I tried two different methods. First, I actually uploaded my entire catalog and the XML/indexes to S3, then simply made the local iTunes folder a symbolic link. This way both the library files and indexes are on the S3. The theory being that as I listen to files at work, and maybe add a new song file, then when I get home and fire up iTunes, it's identical. In a perfect world, this is the best solution. All computers treat the iTunes database as their own and it doesn't matter where changes are made.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, any change (including simply the fact iTunes increment the Times Played counter on every song as you listen) requires reuploading those index files. At work with huge pipes, not a huge deal. On the DSL or Wifi, major problem. After every song plays, it's uploading 50Meg worth of indexes.</p>

<p>With that option not working, I then undid the symbolic link, put the indexes back in a regular local iTunes folder, and simply set the actual library of songs to still use the Amazon drive.</p>

<p>In this mode, at least it's not updating after every song, but the benefit of having multiple computers with identical libraries immediately goes away. Any new song has to be added separately to each computer. The biggest problem is that some features, like Genius, suddenly decide to reindex which requires scanning your library (and sending info to Apple). With the songs in the cloud, iTunes basically causes Jungledisk to download each song to "scan", so suddenly my 50GB of songs are being re-downloaded one at a time so Genius can do a scan (no clue why it can't simply send the titles, I don't really know what it was doing that it wanted full file access.. but it does, so Jungledisk was busy downloading until I aborted that process Forcefully.)</p>

<p>Any updates to any song still require that download/upload, such as changing a tag. I changed the tags on three podcasts to be "Podcasts" instead of whatever they were before, which meant iTunes (JungleDisk) downloaded each file, rewrote the tag, and reuploaded those files. Even at work it took several minutes.</p>

<p>With my MacBook Air in particular, streaming music off S3 is very hit or miss. Many places I tried didn't have the best download. Even at the massive public library downtown, they throttle traffic during busy periods (like when there's literally 1000 people in there on their laptops and in-house computers), so my download speed was 128kpbs at peak times. Not a huge deal for web pages, but music no longer worked. (Streaming radio works because they're compressing heavily, but with iTunes downloading 3Meg files per song, performance was not good.)</p>

<p>So ... while everything mentioned here works in theory, real world performance just isn't up to the task. I'll keep my S3 drive because having unlimited backup space is great (especially since it just costs .10 cents per Gig/per Month to have it just sit there), but constant usage just isn't ready for prime time.</p>

<p>As a side note, this does prove that the DSL/Cable style of Broadband, i.e. fast download/slow upload because we're "consumers of data" really breaks down under the Cloud Computing or Storage model where we need full duplex access at high speeds. I have no doubt in my mind that cloud storage at least is the next major thing, but the infrastructure has to be there first.</p>
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by RobC</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4905</link>

								<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:24:53 -0800</pubDate>
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										<p>I am in a similar situation, but I doubt JungleDisk will work for the following reasons (some of which are already mentioned):
a) cost - S3 charges for bandwidth usage. you'd probably risk getting metered by your ISP as well.
b) performance - iTunes can barely handle my local network drive. 
c) reliability - I've lost several files trying to do a bulk copy (opposed to a backup). Network error during upload and I had a collection of 0 byte files. Was a pain to sort out.</p>

<p>Sugarsync (www.sugarsync.com) seems like a promising, but incomplete solution. They don't charge for bandwidth, and they support streaming non-DRM MP3's and AAC. But you can only backup from your local drive. You can stream from the cloud using their mobile app, but that's it. Your playlists, Apple TV, and iPod experience are shot.</p>

<p>Drives that have more capacity need to be more energy-efficient. Networks need to be faster. The real solution, IMO, is that compression envelope for the files needs to be pushed. </p>
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Zicmama</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4735</link>

								<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:36:22 -0800</pubDate>
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										<p>Hi,</p>

<p>You seems to be an advanced music listener.
Let me tell you about Zicmama.
As Jungledisk, It is a network drive.
But it gets your mp3 copied from other music library ;)</p>

<p>Try it and open an account an http://www.zicmama.com
Then connect your Webdav ZicDisk...
Be gentle, this is still a beta french ;)
Any interested translator?</p>

										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Kevin</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4722</link>

								<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:30:27 -0700</pubDate>
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										<p>I'm trying to take this one step further but I'm stuck. I have jungle disk mirroring my music drive so all 60GB is avalable from any computer I wish to use to access my music. This is very nice. But I would also like to grab that music by mapping a drive on my windows mobile 6 smartphone - a palm treo 750. I have an unlimited data plan and this would eliminate my 2GB memory card limit and allow me to queue up any song from my entire library any time I want. WM6 supports drive mapping but as far as I know no one has an API yet to access S3 from a WM6 device. Any skillfull people up for the challenge?</p>

										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Alex</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4645</link>

								<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 08:07:33 -0800</pubDate>
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										<p>is there a limit on how much music your itunes library can hold or can it hold as much as your hard drive can hold ?</p>

										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by jose Rivera</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4672</link>

								<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:22:10 -0800</pubDate>
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										<p>Just use Hamachi and share your home library.  You will be able to play your entirely library located in your home computer from anywhere in the world.</p>

										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Steve</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4614</link>

								<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:33 -0700</pubDate>
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										<p>I actually use a networked hard drive connected to my wireless router here at my home, but of late I've been thinking of storing new or recently purchased music somewhere on the net for easy access when away from my home office. Very interesting solution... definitely best in small doses as I see a slow down even on a local router with iTunes.</p>

										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Keith</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4579</link>

								<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:23:59 -0700</pubDate>
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										I'm not sure why you're connecting with localhost rather than with jungledisk - can't you just start up jungle disk and go to your S3 from there? What would be the benefit of connecting to localhost?

PS Great piece! I followed all your instructions and now it's like I have a brand new computer with no worries over losing my music and other important contact. Thank you!
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by matt</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4553</link>

								<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 02:14:48 -0700</pubDate>
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										Comparing shared hosting services to Amazon S3 is the equivalent to comparing a floppy disk to replicated raid 0+1 storage.  

You should also not consider the performance of Jungle disk or other solutions as the performance of S3.  In the 6 months we have been using amazon S3 to store database snap shots 8 times a day, we have not had a single instance where we were unable to connect to the service.  S3 is a highly reliable and scalable solution for use primarily for people or organizations who wish to develop their own tools using the API.

JungleDisk and others are tools built by 3rd parties to try and allow others to access the S3 service without the required custom development.  These tools all have their own issues and it sounds like the problems people are dsecribing are related to the tools and not the service.

Amazon S3 is far and away the least expensive solution of its kind, comparing it to webdav on a shared web hosting provider is silly.
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Jeff McNeill</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4566</link>

								<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:01:26 -0700</pubDate>
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										I use <a href="http://site5.com/">site5</a> and they have a 110gb/5tb for $5/mo. Pretty unbelievable, actually. I am very happy with them. 
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Jeff McNeill</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4565</link>

								<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:58:58 -0700</pubDate>
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										Not 100% of the time, and only about half the time while sleeping, but I have a variety of different kinds of music playing probably 50% of the time I am at home, and I do most of my work from home. So at least 6hrs a day and more like 12 hrs. 
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Tech Blog</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4563</link>

								<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 05:02:04 -0700</pubDate>
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										I always wanted to listen itunes music directly on my Laptop. Amazon S3 rocks.
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by J Wynia</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4471</link>

								<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 18:21:48 -0700</pubDate>
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										6 hours a day really isn't that odd. I probably hang out in that 5-7 hours a day myself. I listen for an hour or so in the morning while checking my email and having breakfast, in the car for a half hour each way to work, and for at least half of the working day while writing software. Throw in a bit at home in the evening and 6 hours a day is pretty reasonable.
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Stewart</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4437</link>

								<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:54:06 -0800</pubDate>
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										Yes.  It's like having a shared drive.  In fact, it appears as a folder on My Network Places.  You can install jungle disk on multiple computers and use the same S3 account info, so each computer can upload and download files to the account.
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Metophile</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4429</link>

								<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:00:55 -0800</pubDate>
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										From how the Jungle Disk service presents it's self it sounds like it is able to cash things that you use a lot. It claims that if the content you are searching for is held in the local cash it will not need to access the S3 server.I imagine that it also has settings about how large to make the cash. We can assume that iTunes uses things like the iTunes Library db file quite a lot so that would always be local and if you made the cash large, say 10 gigs. If it was that big I think it could quite easily hold all the music that you would listen to for some time, perhaps about one month. When you did need to listen to new music it would come in from the server. 

I did a little test with my library of about 36 gigs to see how much different music I listen to in a month and in six months. I just used a smart play list with a Played last in the last n months clause. The results were a lot smaller than I had expected, in 1 month I had listened to about 1 gig of unique tracks. That trend was accurate for the last 6 months and year, being 6 and 12 gigs respectively. This is of course only accurate for me but assuming that most people use within an order of magnitude of the number of unique songs that I do per month the cost will still be pretty low. For me it would be roughly $5.45 per month or 65.4 per year, not including upload costs of course. It seems affordable and it seems like a worthwile service model.

I would love you hear if it works as hoped or not. 
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Barth</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4421</link>

								<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 08:42:35 -0800</pubDate>
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										What about multiple listeners? ;-)

The only reason I would upload my DB is for sharing ONE db with around 5 friends. Imagine the amount of usage.

And by the way, the best hosting is: servage.net

features:

-webdrive (e.g. S: on windows) for easy storage of your iTunes db
-2.1TB data transfer
-250GB storage



										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Anonymous</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4399</link>

								<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 15:00:04 -0800</pubDate>
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										I'm a trucker & my ipod is running at least 6 hours a day, you could normally double that just working locally. Thats before taking into account nights out if I wire it up to my 12v tv to watch a video.
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Ted Bongiovanni</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4398</link>

								<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:18:21 -0800</pubDate>
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										I copied my music library to S3--more interested in having an off-site backup but would love to be able to listen to my tunes while at work.  Backup works like a charm--got my first bill from Amazon for the upload and end of month hosting--cost about $3--I have about 20 gigs worth of Tunes.  Haven't been able to get the library to work from the Jungle Disk, but can't say that bothers me too much.  I'm sleeping better knowing that the tunes are backed up.
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Kevin</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4394</link>

								<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:39:25 -0800</pubDate>
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										Using JungleDisk and RSyncX to copy the data over. I was trying to move iTunes and iPhoto off my powerbook whose disk drive was full.

I was not able to get it to work because eventually JungleDisk would hang and stop copying. This was about a month ago. Also, while I understand why JungleDisk would use their own naming conventions I found it annoying because it was hard to use other tools to figure out what was going right/wrong. Also I keep seeing 'shadow' versions of directories in the JungleDisk. There would be a '2007' folder within the '2007' folder but when I clicked it it would go away.

The combination of these factors led me to decide that the tech is not ready. I still think it is a good solution for someday.

Instead I bought an 300GB external FireWire RAID drive and moved everything on to that. It took about 45 minutes to copy everything (after weeks spent trying to get the S3 solution to work). It's an expensive answer but cheaper than a new Powerbook.

So many solutions are designed for backup; but backup is not very helpful when you have run out of hard drive.
										
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								<title>Comment on [iTunes everywhere: Using Amazon S3 as your music library] by Michael A. Vickers</title>
								<link>http://paininthetech.com/2007/01/25/itunes-everywhere-using-amazon-s3-as-your-music-library/#comment-4390</link>

								<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jan 2007 07:53:05 -0800</pubDate>
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										I'm not a Mac user (yet), but I've used JungleDisk (JD) on a PC and for those who are concerned with read/write performance to the JD, JD caches reads/writes locally. Writes out to the remote storage are delayed, and reads are checked against the cache before requesting remotely. Of course, the cache size is configurable.

I'm pulling this out of the nether areas, but I'd venture a guess that ripping to JD would not be any slower than a regular rip as it would be saving to the cache. 

Another commenter asked about reading the file info on boot. Yes, I would wonder about that as well. The library is read in from the iTunes library file when booted, which shouldn't take long on a cached copy. But iTunes does seem to check the availability of the files (at least on a PC) after the library is loaded.

As far as the overall idea of running your library off S3 -- even though the cost isn't a ton, I'm wary of little $10 dollar a month leeches on my credit card, and this would be another one which to me is entirely avoidable. Besides, is redundant, worldwide storage of their tunes?

I have a huge CD collection augmented with stuff I've purchased online. I rip CDs into the library, rate the songs, archive the ripped songs to DVD (using iTunes), and then delete files off the HD that don't meet my rating threshold. After archiving to DVD I essentially have two copies of the music I own on CD - one on the original CD, and one on DVD. If my house burns down and both of those copies go, well, I have bigger things to worry about I guess.

Cheers,


Michael
										
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